Anja Huwe on Her Art, the Legacy of Xmal Deutschland, and Never Looking Back
With a haunting voice that once electrified Europe’s post-punk scene as the lead singer of Xmal Deutschland, Anja Huwe has carved an enduring legacy for the disillusioned and the defiant.
Formed in 1980, Xmal quickly rose to prominence with their dark, aggressive German sound, capturing the attention of the underground music scene and securing a deal with the iconic independent label, 4AD. Their albums Fetisch (1983) and Tocsin (1984) followed soon after, both receiving critical acclaim and solidifying the band’s seminal status in the European post-punk movement.
After the band's dissolution in 1990, Huwe pursued a career in the visual arts, having initially studied at the Hamburg Institute of Design with a concentration in illustration.
She returned to the international music scene in early 2024 with the highly anticipated release of her solo album Codes, along with exclusive re-releases of early Xmal Deutschland tracks, both on Sacred Bones Records, New York.
From the haunting anthems of Xmal Deutschland to her bold, introspective canvases, Huwe continues to build a body of work that is as uncompromising as it is profoundly human — a lasting testament to the enduring power of raw, fearless creativity.
KP: I always like to start chronologically, so naturally, that takes me back to Germany in 1980, where you founded Xmal Deutschland. It was a completely radical band for its time – it still would be considered one – consisting of five women who did not previously play any instruments.
For those who aren’t familiar, what led to the formation of the band, and what was that time in your life like?
AH: Well, we formed the band initially because we were friends. We met in clubs and concerts, so we had many friends who played in bands and had rehearsal rooms. At some point we decided — which was a philosophy of punk — that everyone could do whatever they wanted; we could all be fashion designers, musicians, poets, whatever. We liked each other a lot and decided to get together and use our friends' instruments without having any experience at all at forming a band. That was the beginning of it all, and we quickly decided to also play live, in small clubs and places like that. That's how it all started.
KP: And upon your arrival in London from Germany, you cut your hair and bought clothes from a shop run by none other than Vivienne Westwood and Malcolm McLaren. The styles that both the city and you embraced at the time were, as you said, “against all of the classic roles of being a woman. I didn’t want to marry, I didn’t want to have kids, I wanted to be myself, to be a person and develop, and it was the age to do it.”
When did you first realize that a life of female conformity was not for you? London in the late 70s and early 80s must have been an incredibly freeing place.
AH: Well, it started in my youth, really. My father was a journalist, and he developed magazines for women — very well-known ones. So he always said that there is no difference between men and women, and that we have to support women — he brought many women in to write and shoot photographs. So, for me, there was never a difference between men and women. In those days, it was pretty unusual for society at large, but for me, it was a natural development to decide that I wanted to do things my way.
Maybe my parents expected me to go a different way — I mean, if you have kids, it's pretty normal, but for me, it was not the way that I wanted to go. I wanted to develop in my own way and experience things that were pretty unusual in those days.
KP: That’s amazing. Your father sounds like he was an incredible man!
You were initially signed with the legendary 4AD – we’ve spoken to a few of their artists recently, from the 80s into the early 00s, and everyone always speaks of such a transgressive, fair, and open culture there. I just spoke to Miki Berenyi a few weeks ago!
AH: Oh, really? She’s so good.
KP: She’s the best! What was it like being on such an iconic label? Did you know at the time that a seismic change in culture was happening?
AH: Well, it was pretty exciting to go with 4AD. To us, they were kind of friends because we stayed at Ivo [Watts-Russell]'s house all the time when we went over to record or play. And Manuela [Rickers], my ex-drummer, was going out with Vaughan [Oliver], who ran 23 Envelope — she left the band because she used to live with him. We did know that it was a very exciting time — they developed and created a sort of unique design music label, of course, and we were part of it.
But then again, it was a natural sort of development, you know? It wasn’t like the way it was maybe for Miki — it was a bit different because she came in later. I met her last year, actually, and we thought about maybe having her play in my band, but she does her own stuff, of course.
KP: What?! That’s so cool!
AH: Yes, the funny thing was when I met her in Newcastle for this Vaughan Oliver event, she said, “You know, we’ve met before!” And I said, “No, I can't remember.” She said, “I interviewed you! I was a huge fan. We sat in your hotel room before you went on stage in London. I always wanted to be in a band, too.” She came into it much later. So for her, it was a big thing to sign to 4AD, but for us, it was just a natural development. We were there and part of the beginning. So looking back, it's, of course, very unique, you know? But in those days, it was a normal thing.
KP: Wow, that’s a really cool story. Believable, of course! You paved the way for women like Miki — all of us, really!
One thing that many of the 4AD women have told me is that they don’t feel that they experienced as much sexism as other females in the industry, which they credit a lot to the incredibly progressive culture at the label.
Would you share that sentiment? If so or if not, what words would you offer women who want to get involved in the arts somehow?
AH: Well, I think that Miki is right. In those days, it was different being with 4AD, you know? It was all equal. So there was no difference between men and women. But then again, you can't always stay in a bubble like that. You go out, you play, and you are confronted with completely different kinds of people. So, of course, we had those experiences, too. As I said, there was no difference for me personally, but I had to live with some things — when we played, for example, with The Stranglers, which is a very male band, and crew too — they would just turn us down. And so I said to Manuela, my guitarist, “You know what? Just turn it up so we can blow them away.” And so that's what we did. That was the way that we worked with these bands — we gave them the full treatment, and they accepted it.
And then the other thing that I learned when I was with 4AD — those were the first days for me to be in England and be confronted with the language. I wasn't really able to do that, you know? I only had my school English. But I realized in those days, you have to learn the language very quickly, and it’s very important to get the kind of humor that Brits have, you know? So we quickly got into that, and they realized that we could handle the jokes and the roughness, in a way. They accepted us.
We always met people that weren't so nice and open regarding women making music, of course, but we ignored it.
And also, I think today, there is a difference because of Me Too — there’s awareness of women; it's more equal. Today, you can say, “Don't talk to me like this. I don't want this.” That was not the case in those days, because then you were just seen as some pretentious person. Today it's completely different — you can say no.
“Maybe my parents expected me to go a different way — I mean, if you have kids, it's pretty normal, but for me, it was not the way that I wanted to go.
I wanted to develop in my own way and experience things that were pretty unusual in those days.”
KP: Spinning off of that, in a chat with The Guardian, you said, “There were always guys saying things like, ‘Let’s see how they can really play…’ But we thought, we’ll just give it a go, be loud, and aggressive. We’ll show them.” And to be loud and to be aggressive, you very much so did – and succeeded with flying colors, at that.
What do you think gave you all the confidence to be as unapologetic and assertive as you all were? All of you were forces to be reckoned with.
AH: Maybe our education. And also, we grew up in Germany — that's completely different, you know? There is a difference. We did not accept how they treated us, and we all came from families who gave us the energy to say no. That's, I think, the way — and education, probably.
KP: That would make sense! There has been a huge resurgence of Xmal’s catalog recently, particularly with Gen Z. There’s a great proliferation of your work on TikTok, which must be kind of wild to see after all of it was recorded in such analog ways. Was this renewed interest from young people in particular surprising to you? Was timelessness ever a goal of yours while you were recording?
AH: Yeah, it's funny, everyone says that it's so timeless — that it's like it was written today, or something. Yeah, maybe. I mean, I can't say that myself, so I don’t know. But it's funny — I know that about resurgence on TikTok. I don’t watch TikTok. They always say that I should really watch it and that I have to be on TikTok, but I say, “You know what? I do Instagram, and I have my website — that's enough.” Do you know what I mean?
KP: I absolutely do! And that is more than enough.
AH: There definitely is a young audience out there now, but that grew in a way because, I mean, at some point the band was finished and there was a big gap. There was nothing. Even when people said to me, “Oh, you make music, what was the name of your band?” I just didn't say anything.
So this was a huge development. I mean, I am sort of out there — I get all of this mail coming in and people contacting me from all over the world, and very young people too, especially from the US. In California, we have a huge community out there. And you see the same in fashion, you know? All of these Balenciaga guys — there is a lot of interest.
I don't know why, but maybe it's a matter of melancholy or, you know, this kind of spirit that came up again.
KP: I do think it’s that. We’ve reached the same kind of disillusioned sentiment today that many people had back in the late 70s and early 80s, for sure.
Of reaching more mainstream success, you’ve said, “We didn’t listen to anyone ever; we were just happy with ourselves. We just made it for fun. We came to a point where we needed someone to say, ’This is a job, guys. And lots of people depend on you, so please, listen to us.’ But no one was there.”
This got me thinking very much about the magic of your early work with Xmal, and I think it’s fair to say that much of the enchantment of it is probably that you didn’t have someone telling you the “right” things to do. It always sounded so raw, so visceral, so true.
After deciding to step away from music in the 90s, did you ever regret not listening to anyone, or do you agree that it was much of your appeal?
AH: It was our appeal, I think. We could have done more. I mean, we played big places, so there were people out there who said, “Why did you stop? I mean, you could have… blah, blah, blah.” But you know, then again, I knew if I would have gone that way, the price would have been me. I saw that with so many artists — they were fresh and innovative and positive and successful, but it does something to you, and I just didn't want that. I knew that I wanted to be myself and stay with my creativity. And then at some point, you have to compromise — of course, that's the industry. You can't go on like that. I mean, we had moments where record companies said, “Either you change and you get a lot of money… You have to do this and this and this. So you can think about it.” But we said no. And then they’d say goodbye! That was it.
It’s sad, because we didn't make any money through music. But then again, as I said, the price of the alternative is high, as we all know. And that’s not for me. I mean, there are other things that I can go with instead.
KP: Absolutely. You made the right choice. And in speaking, you’ve said, “I never look back; I always go forward.” I think that’s some of the best advice that anyone could lend. What keeps you moving forward? What inspires you to always create and keep moving?
AH: My creativity — there's so much more that I want to say and talk about. And do! I enjoy getting up in the mornings, going to my gym, and then I immediately start working on something. I do various things, you know? Videos, my art, I write — I wouldn't say songs, but bits and pieces — I see my friends… I'm very excited by life. I love it. I do not rest. So for some reason, I just go on. I have lots and lots more to say and to do. I'm not finished.
KP: Lucky for us! You released your first solo album, Codes, just last year in 2024 to everyone’s surprise and excitement. You sound as incredible as ever! What was it like to be properly recording again? What inspired that album directly?
AH: The funny thing is, it was pretty relaxing to record because I went to Berlin once or twice a month to visit my friend Mona [Mur] — she runs a studio, and we worked on this album together. The pressure that I had in the early days — being in a band and being the very last to get in and do my bits and pieces — was gone. This time, it was completely different. It was very relaxed. Working in the studio, we built up some sounds and created a few. I’d say, “Okay, I have these words; now let's get this together for a trip-hopish sort of sound,” for example. I wrote down my lyrics, and I had songs where I sang them. I sang them as soon as I finished, you know? I was singing this song in the early evening, standing in the back, and she said, “Where does that come from?” So, what I'm saying is that my voice these days is stronger than it was in the early days since I'm completely free — I can do what I want. It’s a great way of working, no pressure. And I brought in Manuela on guitars, from Xmal Deutschland. Because I love her sound, that was also very inspiring.
And the whole thing is more conceptual, you know? It's not like when a band comes together and has to write an album — we just did it bit by bit. It was like a concept. It's very similar to working out colors and structures while painting.
KP: Speaking of your paintings, after Xmal, you focused much of your creative output on the visual arts, or as you say, “music on canvas.” I very much so find that to be true – the work is so multidimensional, so transformative. What is the process like for creating your paintings? Where do you start? And where do you hope to end up?
AH: First of all, I concentrate on dots and circles. I like the philosophy of circles, too — I mean, it's an endless sort of thing… In Japanese culture, you have it too. So I started dotting things, which I always did in my own life. But I started working very, very big, because I had a studio where I could sort of let it all out. But at some point, I realized that I wanted to give it structure, so I learned how to work with color to bring certain things out. I started working on circles, and I never knew where I would end. Sometimes I think I want to work on a blue piece, but this blue piece turns into a red piece for some reason… I don't know why.
And also, I started working with writing. I started learning Arabic. I went to school to learn the Persian language because I worked with guys from Iran and from Afghanistan for a while in a theater, doing projects. So I just put various symbols in my work — which I’ve never exhibited, really — but I work on it.
But yeah, to answer the question — I never know where it ends. I just go for it, and it always changes. It's completely open.
KP: What do you feel makes a provocative woman?
AH: Maybe education or things that you experience over the years. An ongoing interest in new things, developing all the time, not getting tired or bored… That is the death, you know? Getting bored. So I find everything all very exciting. Every conversation — like talking to you — always gives me something new in my life.
And that's what keeps us going. It’s what gives the whole world personality. It’s something that you simply cannot achieve anywhere else.
